Frequently Asked Questions about the IHSSCA Swim Rankings
1. How
is the State Meet Poll calculated?
2. Is the
State Meet Poll the same as the Power Poll?
3. How do I report our
team’s times?
4. Where
can we see the rankings of the events and teams?
5.
When do times need to be turned in order to be ranked for the next poll.
6.
What if a swimmer is ranked in the top 16 of more then 2 events?
7.
What if a team has more then 3 swimmers/divers scoring points in that event?
8.
How often are the rankings updated?
9.
How do I read the individual event ranking columns with times?
10.
Where do the times come from that are used for this season times?
11. Are all the times
the best in the state?
12.
If all the times from this season are not reported how can the ranking be accurate?
13. How are the relays and
diving ranked?
14. Who makes the poll?
15.
Why do some of the teams that are ranked high in the poll lose to unranked teams in dual
and even
championship meets?
1. How is the State Meet Poll calculated?
A theoretical, 16 place meet is actually scored by computer from the times/scores that are reported. For the individual swimming events the previous year’s top 20 times from either Sectional and/or State are included in score. For diving last year's top twenty highest Sectional/State championship score is changed to a equalivant six dive, dual meet score. Those scores are then used to rank the divers. If a higher 6 dive score is turned in for the present season, the higher score will be used to rank the divers.
In relays only this year’s times are scored.
No, they are not the same. The NISCA Power Poll was originally used to rank Indiana teams. It was designed by NISCA to measure team depth, with each performance in each event given a numerical point value. The faster the swim, the higher the number,. Each entry in each event are added to get a final total. The problem is that depth is not a factor in the state meet unless it is quality depth. An example of what would happen in using the Power Poll: Team "A" has three boy’s swimming the 50 freestyle in 24.00, 25.50, 25.90 while team "B" has 20.49, 30.00, 31.50. The power points for team "A" is 92+71+65=228, while team "B" would be 156+19+5=180. Team "A" would have 48 more power points, but not even come close to scoring a point at our state meet. Team "B" would have a probable state champion and set our state record.
3.
How do I report our team’s times?
Boy's
Roger Karns of Wawasee does the boy's rankings.
Please send all boys times or corrections to him.
e-mail - RKarns@wawasee.k12.in.us
fax - 574-457-3869
Girl's
Keith
Gast from Jeffersonville High School does the girl's rankings.
Please send all times or corrections to him.
e-mail - coachgast@aol.com
fax - 812-288-4819 (Jeffersonville High School)
4. Where can we see the rankings of the events and teams?
The poll is sponcered by the IHSSCA but anyone can see a current ranking listing at http://www.indianaswimming.org/, then scroll down to site called Indiana High School Swim Coaches, click it and you can get undated boy’s rankings, girl’s rankings, reported meet results. Local newspapers should print a top 20 list every Tuesday.
5. When do times need to be turned in order to be ranked for the next poll.
Times have to be received by Saturday evening in order to be ranked in the next poll. If they are received after that they will appear in the following weeks rankings.
6. What if a swimmer is ranked in the top 16 of more then 2 events?
Each swimmer can only score points in their best two events.
7. What if a team has more then 3 swimmers/divers ranked in that event?
A team is only allowed to score their top three swimmers/divers in an event. Plus a swimmer cannot score points in more than two individual events.
8. How often are the rankings updated?
They are updated every week. The web site usually has a new ranking posted by Sunday evening.
9. How do I read the individual event ranking columns with times?
There are three columns that include times. One column is the top 20 times from last season’s State and Sectional Meets. It includes the returning individual event participants and it’s heading is the years from last season. The second column is an individual swimmers best time that have been reported to us from this season. The third column is better of the two times. The swimmers are ranked by the time in the third column.
10. Where do the times/scores come from that are used for this season rankings?
Most times/scores are sent to us by the coaches, however sometimes officials, newspaper sports reporters, parents and even swimmers have sent in times. If times come from sources other than coaches or officials we will verify the authenticity of the times. Sometimes results local newspaper are also used
11. Are all the times the best in the state?
Probably not, they are the best times that are reported to us. For various reasons not all of the times are reported. Times that we don’t know about obviously aren’t on the list.
12. If all the times from this season are not reported how can the ranking be accurate?
That’s why last season’s times are included. By using last years sectional/state preformances swimmers/divers whose times are never reported, but will be swimming at the State Meet will still be listed in the rankings. Plus many swimmers will not perform their best times and will have slower times until their taper. By including last year’s times it gives a better indication of a true State Meet placing.
13. How are the relays and diving ranked?
They are ranked by the best times reported from this season only. Relays will include swimmers that graduated last year that will not be swimming this year.
The State and Sectional diving scores come from 11 dives. Those scores will be matimatically calculated as 6 dives. Even though this method is not precise it gives the a fairly accurate indication of whom the top divers are for this season. Also by using this method the returning top divers from the previous year will be ranked even though their scores are not reported.
To be realistic the poll is actually made by the coaches and other individuals who report the times. The poll is only as accurate as the times that a sent in.
Both the boy’s and girl’s polls are calculated by computer by Larry Zoller Larry is the coach at Mt. Vernon High School near Evansville. He has done the boy’s poll since 1990.
Andy Pedersen from Hamilton Southeastern started the first girl’s poll in 1993. Larry has done the girl’s poll since 1997.
Keith Gast from Jeffersonville High School has compiled the girl's poll data base since 2002. Roger Karns from, Wawasee High school has done the boy's poll data base since 2005. From the outstanding and time consuming efforts by Coach Gast and Coach Karns, then Coach Zoller calculates the polls by using Excel macros from their databases that were designed specifically to calculate the poll. The polls are usually emailed to Coach Zoller on Sunday mornings. By Sunday afternoon new ranking are usually posted.
The poll ONLY reflects the caliber of performances that would place in the state meet. If a team has one or two quality swimmers they can do well in the state meet, but is without a supporting cast of swimmers/divers they would not do well in dual meet competition. Every year there are several teams who have individual swimmers who "carry" their team to a successful state meet, yet during the dual meet season their team was frequently beat in dual meets.
The most vivid example of that was in the 1982 Boy's State Meet. Kokomo Haworth won the state meet with only 4 individual qualifiers, but lost their sectional and conference meets.